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Science vs Religion Part 3: Speculation and Hubris

By: The Baron

[Part 3 in a multi-part series on Science & Religion from an LDS perspective.  Previous entries in the series: Part 1 | Part 2]

One of the primary characteristics of working with incomplete ‘explanation-schema’ is that speculation becomes a fundamental part of the process.   One takes what one knows, places it within the framework of existing theories, and then makes guesses as to what the rest of the picture might look like.  They are usually educated guesses, of course--not random--but speculative guesses nonetheless.

This is true of both science and religion.  “Speculation” by itself is not a problem—in fact, it is arguably a vital part of the learning process for both science and religion.  Speculation in science leads to new directions of study—new theories that can be tested and analyzed, and then either added to the main theoretical framework, or abandoned.  Speculation in religion leads to new ideas and questions, which (as the D&C shows) has historically been the key catalyst when receiving new divine guidance and revelation.

The problem with speculation comes when those educated guesses are not recognized as such, and treated as fact (or ‘gospel’) before they are actually supported with anything concrete.  (Often this serves as a source of great embarrassment when those guesses turn out to be wrong…)

Many on both sides of the science and religion divide get themselves in trouble when they have part of the truth, but feel they KNOW conclusively what the rest contains and (especially) what it doesn’t.  One of the biggest obstacles to scientific and religious progress is human hubris.

In the previous section, we mentioned briefly the history of solar system theory, culminating in Kepler’s discovery of elliptical orbits.   One of the big hang-ups in coming to a correct picture of the solar system—even from Kepler himself—was that scientists were for the longest time unwilling to sacrifice the idea of circular orbits, even when evidence suggesting otherwise started to mount.

The reason?  Circles, you see, are “perfect” and “pure” shapes, and more readily fit into those early scientists’ ideas of how a “perfect” God would have created the universe in the first place.  (We should note here that virtually all early scientists were religious believers as well and themselves found no conflict between science and religion.)

Ellipses, on the other hand, are just flawed and distorted circles—‘imperfect’ shapes, unbecoming of a perfect God.  If God WAS going to create the solar system, surely He’d have used the more aesthetically pleasing circles, right?

This kind of stubbornness is a good representation of a common and fundamental problem when trying to view religion through the lens of science (or vice versa): the impact that human bias can have when looking at how something IS, versus how you think it should be.

Oftentimes, the word ‘perfect’ is used to mean ‘perfect AND simple’-- something easy to understand.  When complex factors are added, the concept of ‘perfection’ is lost, even though complex systems—including ellipses—can be perfect in their own way.  (Kepler’s laws regarding elliptical orbits are in fact relatively simple and straight-forward, showing that ellipses have their own symmetry and simplicity—“perfection” if you will…)

There’s a joke about a man who’s working on the roof of a tall building.  As he’s attempting to grab a tool from his toolbox, he slips and starts sliding down the roof, heading precipitously towards the edge and a long fall to the ground below.  Recognizing he might be seriously injured or killed, he offers one of the most sincere (and quickest) prayers of his life.  “God, please save me!  Help me, and I’ll do anyth…”

Suddenly, his pants catch on a protruding nail and his fall is averted.

“Oh…never mind!” he says.

Many people, regardless of belief, have opinions about how God works in the world today (or would, if He existed), which often take the form: “IF God exists, then _____”

(“If God exists, then there wouldn’t be suffering in the world.”)

(“If God exists, then He would make Himself known in some obvious way, like a giant throne floating in the sky or something…”)

Oftentimes, the thought pattern to determine faith is fairly simple:
  1. If God exists, then X would be true.
  2. I see no evidence X is true.
  3. Therefore God must not exist.

The problem is (2) is taken as all the proof of (3) that is necessary, when the validity of this thought experiment is entirely dependent on whether (1) is an accurate assumption in the first place.  How do we *know* if God exists, X would be true?

It is interesting how often even religious believers assume God (if He exists) MUST work outside of science and natural law.  In the anecdote above, did God save the man falling off the roof?  (No, silly, it was the nail…  Because, apparently, if God *were* to save him, He would have done it some other way, like—I don’t know--a giant hand reaching out of the sky or something…right?)

Take the question: where do rainbows come from?

The religious believer might answer that they were created by God as a symbol of His covenant with Noah after the flood.  Someone with a modern science background might conclude instead: No, God didn’t “create” rainbows, they are a natural phenomenon caused by the refraction of sunlight through moisture in the atmosphere.

Like the nail on the roof, the idea of the natural refraction of light replaces God.  The unspoken assumption is that IF God existed, and were responsible for rainbows, it would NOT be through natural laws of the universe involving light and moisture, but through some other means.  Something…well, more complex and difficult to explain, presumably.

Science largely rejects the idea of God creating the Earth with the unspoken assumption that IF God existed, He would have created the world and mankind differently than through evolution, therefore creationism must be false. 

Likewise, religious believers say basically the same thing with the opposite conclusion:  we don’t know exactly how God created the Earth (the Bible is short on details), but He certainly would NOT have done it through evolution…therefore evolution must be false.

All of this guesswork contains the same basic flaw as the idea that “If God existed, he would have created the solar system using perfect circles rather than ellipses…”  For an omnipotent being who doesn't share a lot of details, we seem pretty sure how God MUST do things, don’t we…?

Again, the question here is whether one has to be false at the expense of the other.  Why assume God MUST work outside of natural processes?

Let’s propose a new hypothetical:  Evolution is one of many natural processes God used to create the Earth.

Can this statement be conclusively disproven with any known scientific fact?  Can this statement be conclusively disproven with existing scripture?

With this one simple statement we’ve bridged the gap between science and religion.  No more can science say creationism must be false because, unlike evolution, there’s no scientific evidence for it—because under this theory all evidence for evolution IS scientific evidence of creationism.  No more are we bound by the unproven notion that creationism must lie outside of science, because we start with the hypothesis that God Himself works inside of science.

In the early days, scientists (also religious believers) made discoveries with the view that they were explaining HOW God did things, not looking to replace the very idea of God with mathematical equations.  In modern times, this seems to be largely lost:  somehow, paradoxically, having simple explanations that are easy to understand for natural phenomenon are considered more ‘proof’ of divine Creation than having immeasurably complex explanations.  (As if random processes are capable of creating complex structures and systems…but an all-powerful God is not.)

Beware of the trap that speculation and hubris creates for both science and religion.  Beware of any thought that takes the form of “I don’t understand why He would have done it that way, so it must be false.”  Or: “That’s not how *I* would have done it, so it must be false.”  Beware of any thought that attempts to presume that God *couldn’t* have done it that way, therefore…

Next: The role of faith and testimony in science

Print | posted on Thursday, March 13, 2008 7:03 AM | Filed Under [ The Baron General Theology Science ]

Comments:

#1: Doc

Very nicely argued. I like it. I agree, a lack of humility and openness to possibility are fundamental obstacles to both Science and Religion.
3/13/2008 7:18 AM

#2: Eric Nielson

I am enjoying your series so far.

I think this problem can come in smaller scales also. When things happen that I don't like or understand I don;t question the existence of God, but I might start to question his interest level, or some aspect of His character. Which might be just as bad.

Anyway I agree that the approach of many can lead to bad science and bad religion.
3/13/2008 9:39 AM

#3: Jeff G

I'm loving these posts. That said, let's move on to my usual issues.

First, I still can't accept the all/or nothing situation which you paint.We don't have to assume that God MUST have done X rather than not X. All we have to assume is that, given what we know about God and His character we would assign a higher probability to X than we would not X. Thus, while not X no longer counts as "proof" against God, it still counts as evidence against God.

Second, I've never been comfortable with evolution as God's way of creating. The whole point of evolution is that it is nobody's way of creating. Let's get to the heart of the issue by considering the nail saving the man falling from the roof. Did God magically make the nail protrude after the man fell? What caused the nail to protrude in the first place? What caused the man to fall as the exact spot where the nail would catch him? God doesn't seem like a very good answer to any of these questions.

What it boils down to is this. From what we know about God's nature (omnipotence, or something close to it) we would certainly assign a higher probability to HIm not using a prodigiously wasteful and mindless mechanism for creation than we would assign to Him using such a mechanism. I don't know anybody who would suggest otherwise.
3/13/2008 12:02 PM

#4: Eric Nielson

Jeff:

I am glad you have been following this. Your comments have mede this more interesting.

I think that 'good' religion, which I would consider Mormonism to be, would mostly be open to a fairly wide range of possibilities. It would acknowledge what it does not know very much about, and keep an open mind. Mormonism, with its absence of creeds, and its open end to future revelation, is well equipped to do that.

The nail example is a good one. Maybe God intervened, maybe he didn't. The only way one can know is through personal revelation. Sometimes we are lucky, maybe other times we are blessed. I actually do not like the nail example very much. The real blessing is the atonement and the resurrection.

The hypothetical that Baron gives is: Evolution is one of many natural processes God used to create the Earth

The key point, I think, is to keep in mind that this statement is a hypothetical. Either that or it should be stated 'Evolution may be ....' Either way, we should be cautious of absolutes from either side.
3/13/2008 12:35 PM

#5: Jeff G

Yeah, I didn't consider the nail example all that important. The claim that we deal with probabilities rather than possibilities, however, seems to be a strong objection. It just seems like Baron is arguing that either science disproves religion altogether or science and religion are perfectly compatible. While the latter certainly seems more plausible than the former claim, I would argue that if we deal with confirmation rather than proof, there is a significant tension between science and religion. Remember, back in the first post Baron said that one can FULLY embrace both.
3/13/2008 12:43 PM

#6: Eric Nielson

Would you think it would be proper to say that one (particularly a Mormon one) could fully embrace both science and religion if that meant science and religion in general (while rejecting some specific ideas and theories). I believe Baron is suggesting embracing the ideal processes involved even if we might be skeptical of some of the current conclusions.
3/13/2008 2:56 PM

#7: Eric Nielson

Baron:

Jeff G is a sharp guy, and is pretty good in a debate. For him to say he loves these post is quite a compliment. Jeff is not easily impressed (from what i have observed).
3/13/2008 2:58 PM

#8: The Baron

All of Jeff's questions are good, and an essential part of the science/religion debate. Discussing whether you can FULLY reconcile science and religion together depends on how fully you accept what I'm calling 'speculation' on one side or the other as truly 'in the fold' of science or religion, or lies outside. Obviously, I have a broader view of what I would call speculation than others...

Here's a relevant anecdote that I didn't find room for in the main article, but is still instructive:

Albert Einstein, when first pondering the issue of gravity, did a thought experiment which went as follows: imagine there are two sealed elevators, one floating deep in outer space, one dropped from a great height crashing down towards the Earth at a high speed. The question: considering that a person trapped inside either elevator would be weightless under the circumstances, was there any way for that person to *prove* (not just guess) which of the two elevator cars he was trapped in? The conclusion: you could not, because the effect of weightlessness from being deep in space without any gravity, and being deep in the gravity well of a planet such that you are being pulled towards it at such a rate that you appear weightless is EXACTLY the same. This was a key theoretical concept that led to relativity.
3/13/2008 3:38 PM

#9: Jeff G

Eric,

Well, yes and no. Of course it is logically possible to believe in religion and science, in the sense that I don't think science can disprove religion. However, I think that the only way this can happen is by holding orthodox science, orthodox religion or, to some extent, both at arms length. I'm skeptical of the idea that one can fully embrace both.

I worry that for one to embrace science "in general" while retaining the right to be skeptical of whatever idea or theory one choose is only to embrace science in the cheapest sense of the word.

I worry that Baron's position might be even worse than a God-of-the-gaps, in that God is in what we know, what we don't know and any other category we can imagine. This makes the God hypothesis without consequence and therefore meaningless, or at least irrelevant.

I worry there is no disciplined standards from which to protect religion from mere religious speculation. I also have no clue what the "religious process" which you speak of is. While we have a vaguely clear idea of the scientific method, what, exactly, is the religious method?

In the end, I think that there is going to be some serious tensions in the mind that attempts to embrace both the scientific method and the religious method, whatever that may be. Science works on the assumption that nature is all there is. Religion works from the negation of this same premise. While people speak ill of the "God of the gaps" in the science/religion debates, it's difficult to imagine what to replace it with. I think this all falls back on our lack of a "religion method."
3/13/2008 3:41 PM

#10: Jeff G

I have some reservations about the Einstein story. As you may or may not know, Einstein had a HUGE influence on philosophy and the development of Logical Positivism. Einstein knew that the search in science for proof, was hopeless. He didn't seek iron-clad proof of anything. The two men didn't need proof for which elevator they were in, only some kind of verification. In other words, the two men, inside the elevator, would have absolutely no way of empirically verifying which elevator they were in because there was no empirical difference between the two. Thus, and this is a radical step, Einstein simply equated the notion of force due to acceleration and force due to gravity. He suggested that a difference which made no difference was no difference at all. The two were the same because there was no empirically verifiable difference between the two. Proof never entered the picture.
3/13/2008 3:47 PM

#11: The Baron

Hmmm...the last part of my comment got cut.

The point of that Einstein story (which got left off) was that, like the elevator question, if you're comparing God working through science to create things, and science working by itself, would you be able to prove (not guess) which one it was? I don't think you can, because the science itself looks exactly the same.

That's why the 'request' from science for proof of God's hand in all things may not be fair or realistic because you literally would not be able to tell if God really was working within science, if that was the case. Everything would look exactly the same as how they are now...
3/13/2008 3:54 PM

#12: Jeff G

I wonder if my comments have been cut off too!

Well I certainly have no problem with reconciling this kind of religion with science, for they are one and the same. You have rejected, following Einstein, a providential God in favor of a Spinozist God. This is find, but it is certainly NOT the God of Mormonism.
3/13/2008 3:57 PM

#13: The Baron

He suggested that a difference which made no difference was no difference at all. The two were the same because there was no empirically verifiable difference between the two.


Yes, I think that's the same point in terms of evolution as well. It makes no difference in the end result whether God is using science or science is using itself--it would look the same either way. This doesn't prove God exists, but (I think) counters the argument that God *doesn't* exist based on lack of evidence, because of the wrong definition of "evidence"
3/13/2008 3:57 PM

#14: Jeff G

But what in the world does it mean for God to use evolution? Furthermore, do we have any reason, whatsoever, to believe that this is what God actually does? On the other hand, I think we do have reason to believe that this is NOT what God did.

Again, I think focusing on proof, etc. sidesteps on the interesting issues at stake in the debate.
3/13/2008 4:01 PM

#15: Doc

"God is in what we know, what we don't know and any other category we can imagine. This makes the God hypothesis without consequence and therefore meaningless, or at least irrelevant."

I disagree, I think it makes it terribly relevant. It seems that our true insight into why we are here, what God has in store for us, if he even cares, etc. are ultimately the province of faith and principles. This will no doubt make a skeptic or empiricist tear his hair out because it is so intangible. But I can tell you what is tangible, looking at what happens to your mind as you exercise trust in God, Improving as a person as God becomes more real and more personal, Learning to find peace, learning to pray. This is what happens to your life when you live life as Christ taught, when you learn to forgive others with all their faults, when you serve others, when you learn humility while at the same time learning your true potential.

While this is all in the empirically unsatisfying it is ultimately the most satisfying thing I have found in my life. Delusion, you say. I can't prove that wrong, but I can say it does seem to be part of Man's nature to seek out a higher power. Why fault me for simply being what I am? Why fight what we are? What if consciousness is a delusion with evolutionary purpose? What good does "proving" this do. It seems to me it would then undermine a natural law, or survival skill of our kind. For what, to be "right."

When being right overshadows what is right I think we lose our way. I think far too much of the religion science war is all caught up in a debate of no real consequence. Remember, there is always the possibility that the reason we look to a higher power is because He is there, that this life might just have purpose, the plan of salvation, as revealed by him, to all who seek it as their prejudice will bear it, is true and key to our happiness. This life, in spite or even because of all its ambiguities and confusion, this life still has tremendous meaning. To me, this is what is real, what matters, far more than evolution, creationism, big bang, or quantum mechanics,
3/13/2008 7:31 PM

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